Pivot Points and Degree of Twist

[bluedrift]

Pivot Points

When comparing the movements for shoulders and elbows between WW and PYB there are different pivot points.

For an example take the WW intermediate shoulder rotations and elbow rotations.

For shoulder rotations in WW intermediate the arms are relatively straight. This forces the shoulder to be the main pivot point. For elbow rotations the elbow is the main pivot point.

In PYB for shoulder rotations the elbows are bent. In experimentation as one bends the elbow more and creates a smaller radius of rotation one can more or less slide the main pivot point along the arm from the shoulder to the elbow. A smooth transformation from shoulder to elbows with any number of pivot points between.

This concept can be applied to various joints(and combination of joints) throughout the body.

Am I correct to conclude that for the intended purposes of WW that one should stick to the intended pivot points, and, for PYB one should explore various pivot points?

As I don't have WYA would it be a correct guess that even though one can move in an infinite number of ways through an infinite number of pivot points that in application one will discover that still there are only a limited number that result in successful martial application?

In addition to coaching how does one find that in their own body? Response from heavy bag, focus mitt work, etc.?


Degree of Twist

When doing WW movements for shoulders and elbows it appears that a natural relaxed carriage of the hand is applied.

However, has there been investigation or recommendation into rotating the hand and in effect twisting the levers(forearm/upper arm) while performing these two exercises?

[Matt_OZ]

Hi Kevin,

In my understanding of it, WW is best performed with the intended pivot points which tends to localise the target joint and therefore helps to ensure it gets thoroughly enhanced due to the fact that other joints can not "take up the slack" by compensating for limitations in the ROM of the target area. On the other hand, PYB works on re-integration of all the joints that can reasonably contribute to a movement, it's the re-integration platform for those who have regained good usage of all joints from diligent practice of WW. If people just set out immediately on PYB I feel there is a good chance they would have particular areas compensating for restricted areas and would limit their chances of gaining whole body efficiency.


As I don't have WYA would it be a correct guess that even though one can move in an infinite number of ways through an infinite number of pivot points that in application one will discover that still there are only a limited number that result in successful martial application?


In addition to coaching how does one find that in their own body? Response from heavy bag, focus mitt work, etc.?

The only thing I can add is that IMHO one of the key points that WYA is making is that there is not a limited number of martial applications. Look at the way that people break free from clinches or holds, some will use a grappling escape with no strikes, others will simply gouge an eye while another may slap or tear an ear, the combination of the numbers of pivots and sublte deviations of movement when comparing these options is massive. PYB and WYA help provide you with the tools to move as best you can dictated by what your and your opponents structure requires.

WYA does cover a great deal of what you are asking about in the latter part of your post but I am no expert in martial side of RMAX. Perhaps one of the head coaches will able to help in that area as I know they are all very familiar with the martial aspects of the material.

Have a great day,
Matt :D

[Coach Billew]

Kevin,

From a martial perspective its not about finding ideal possibilities. Its about making the mental shift of understanding that martial application is a relationship of densities and tension chains. Once you make that shift you begin to see that what part of your body makes contact with your partner is less important than how that contact impacts their chains of tension.

The best way, in my opinion, to study this is through time framed improvisational exploration with a partner or partners, as seen in Softwork. The goal is to expand not limit your possibilities.

I hope that helped.

[bluedrift]

Thanks for confirming some of my thoughts. It's great to have experienced people available to help.

In other ways its a challenge to understand the RMAX perspective, and, then to accept it. I think that is the challenge for some folks out there new to it all. Perhaps the somewhat new application of terminology is required to help newbies grasp new ideas, to force them into a mind shift...

For example wing chun has a very specific and technical approach to the position of each and every joint to perform its techniques effectively. They have enough of them to create flow and a very good practitioner can flow but still adheres to that precision and doesn't veer much out of it.

Most of the best javelin throwers all follow a similar technical way of using their joints to throw that object the farthest.

Tai chi folks seem to be able to use their bodies in novel ways that don't need to rely on the specific techniques as per the forms... I suppose if RMAX is a meta style then one could converge on a similar capability or on the other hand end up using just a handful of basics for most cases, it would really be up to them, correct?

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The question regarding twisting is not so much an applications question but more geared towards health. Some folks who do IMA, Yiquan and Indonesian arts(like the gentleman who teaches RMAX and golf) practice twisting the joints.

WHat would be the health benefit if incorporated into WW?