not-so-ultimate running shoes

[amilcarkabral]

Nike is finally getting the picture!!! They're starting to design shoes that support the way the foot functions during running.

Stanford's running coach has his team run barefoot in the grass. This natural exposure actually creates a stronger foot and prevents injuries, thereby allowing people to train more. Nike then videotaped ten men and women running barefoot and analyzed how their foot works during running barefoot. Now they're designing running shoes that support the foot's natural function instead of "protecting" it from running. Here's the link.

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,68474-2,00.html?tw=wn_story_page_next1

[Coach Hurst]

Yeah, I saw a pair of these the other day in a running store. Wonder how people will take to them. Over here in Japan they will probably be a big hit more so for fashion than for running. :shock: :D

Here they are on Nike's home page.

Nike Free (http://nike.com/nikefree/)

[JasonE]

I've heard of these for a while, but haven't seen them stocked anywhere yet. Reebock supposedly has something like it, but haven't been able to confirm that yet.

The obvious question: What does this say about the rest of their shoes? "Run Imprisoned"... :roll:

[Connie Brown]

"Run Imprisoned"... :roll:
This cracks me up.

My favorite shoe experience of all time was in the old days when I did a lot of field sports on grass in worn-out Keds. Talk about no over-protection. Blown-out canvas and ultra thin cheap rubber, mmmmmm.

[StuMcD]

"Run Imprisoned"... :roll:
This cracks me up.


This cracks me up too but for rather different reasons. Nike's research is a bit of a Joke really. The studies they do look great but they can't translate their work into engineering shoes.

The much touted deep flex grooves on the Nike Free are at completely the wrong angle to allow proper foot motion. Think about the angle that your foot lands and flexes at. Does it land square as the flex grooves on the heel of the Free suggest? No it doesn't Does it flex straight across the front of your foot as per the shoe when you take off? No, it doesn't.

In a normal running gait, you land on the outer edge of your heel in quite a supinated position. In this position, the bones of your foot are loose packed to allow it to absorb the impact via the fatty pads underfoot deforming via spreading and twisting and the foot rolling inwards to use the arch as a shock absorber. At foot flat, the bones are tightly packed to form a rigid lever to assist take off. By resupinating, the foot takes advantage of the position and level of your metatarsals which help you to take off smoothly and efficiently.

This tells us that the grooves in a running shoe need to be optimsed to work in three dimensions. The flex grooves need to crush the midsole in such a way as to allow the foot to roll inwards. Having multiple grooves at right angles to each other like on the free doesn't not allow this. The angle that the foot lands at is as dramatic as the one it takes off on. Neither of these are at right angles to the line of the hips.

A good modern running shoe is not the "prison" it was 10 years ago. The argument that running shoes inhibit foot function is no longer relevant at the top level. If you run barefoot on modern surfaces for which the foot is not designed then you will need a good running shoe or else you invite injury.

These days, a good running shoe will offer more of a bumper plate system of features where only over or underpronation is assisted, additional cushioning is on offer and the foot takes off naturally.

Nike do some good research. They just don't build good shoes.
Cheers,
Stu.

[Vbrown]

Wow. Nothing like trying so hard to reinvent the wheel.

Just run with wrestling shoes (to protect from sharp things). about 10 solid heel strikes will fix the stride really quick. Flat and fluid is the name of the game.

V

[sames]

On the Pose Forum (posetech.com) they didn't have very good things to say about the Nike Free. Apparently the heel is still too high. The shoe of choice still seems to be the Puma H-Street for running Pose style.

I dropped by D i c k s's Sporting Goods (heh... board will change that to 'doofus' if I don't leave spaces) and tried on the Nike. Its really a fairly comfortable and extremely light shoe. I dunno what the wear life is. A normal pair of running shoes only as a couple hundred miles in it (depending on running surface, body weight, etc...) and the Free (i think I tried on the Free 5.0) seemed flimsy by comparison. Dunno.

[Deep_D]

i actually run with aqua shoes on, just like Vbrown
said you just need protection from the ground and the junk on sidewalks the first few strides feel very akward but pretty soon you have yourself a real fluid smooth stride. and my connection the the ground is phenomanal now, im very light on my feet yet maintain a high level of ground awareness plus my legs feel very solid from running like this

[Garth Lynch]

I've lately also been running in aqua shoes. My wrestling shoes are too restrictive on the ankle ROM, due to the hightop design, etc. I used to wear Chuck Taylors all the time (including running in them) but I think those damn things made my feet even flatter. I don't like the board shape of their sole.

Can anyone recommend a good running shoe that allows the foot to move the way it ought to?

What is the company that was alluded to (in a deleted or edited post?) as being the one that actually has a proper research lab for their running shoes?

Why is this in the martial art section?

[Jrichardson]

Running away, best defense!

[Charlie]

Akaoni: did you check out the www.posetech.com site? There is some interesting reading there. You don't need a big research-lab, you just need to start running barefoot, or stay in the light, thin-soled shoes (racing flats, or aquashoes etc). Pay attention to your form -- never heelfirst, land on your ball or midfoot.

[quote]1. The shoes should be light, so that their weight didn't deteriorate the feeling of the foot as a part of the leg. It means that the feeling of the foot wouldn't differ from the feeling of the whole leg, psychologically. Biomechanically it may affect the foot transfer in space and time: its speed, acceleration, and trajectory, which could all be deteriorated by heavy shoes. We can deliberately use heavy shoes for some special occasions of strength development, but not for a long time, and surely not permanently.

2. The shoes should have thin soles, with no cushioning at all. It reduces the weight, but this is not the main reason. First of all, it allows you to develop a very precise, refined feeling of interaction between the foot and the ground, while landing. Obviously, it is impossible to do this through a thick shoe sole. In a movement, when every hundredth of a second counts (the time of support in best runners is 0.15-0.20 sec.), the support time is a crucial thing for neuro-muscular coordination. When the signal for the foot to touch the ground reaches the muscles and makes them prepare for landing, it's already too late. And cushioning here is the factor which deteriorates timing and as a consequence, running technique, by increasing the time of support and due to this, loading of joints, ligaments, tendons, and muscles.

Second, a thick sole and cushioning increase the possibility of pronation or supination, if the runner has a tendency to it. Hence, it leads to injuries, and we'll talk about this separately.

Third, in Pose Method landing occurs on the ball of the foot, not on the heel, so the thick shoe heel structure doesn't make any sense. Even more, it reduces the freedom of the heel, and ankle movement and decreases the calf muscle stretching elasticity effect.

Therefore, we would recommend light weight shoes with thin soles, some racing flats meet these requirements. (eg. thin-soled Puma H. Street, which is actually a casual shoe)

"The technological advancements over the past 30 years have been amazing," said Dr. Irene Davis, the director of the Running Injury Clinic at the University of Delaware. "We've seen tremendous innovations in motion control and cushioning. And yet the remedies don't seem to defeat the ailments."

[Connie Brown]

Can't believe no one has mentioned the Boots of Escaping.

thread Rolling the Dice (http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5417&highlight=rolling+dice)

[SAB]

does anyone have any info on running barefoot if you wear orthopedic soles to stop the feet rolling in ?

Its something I'm interested in but not sure if I'll make things worse by running without my soles...

[Charlie]

SAB: I don't have a problem with my feet, so I don't understand why yours roll in, or if orthopedic inserts are actually a good solution. But If it is because of muscular weakness, then running barefoot will help fix that problem. It will start to make your feet work (rather than rely on artificial supports) and you will be a lot more sensitive & aware of when you are using poor running technique.


Flat feet may not be any problem for running, or running barefoot. However, if your feet are flat, arch supports in shoes are NOT going to make your arches stronger. That's like trying to strengthen your ankles by putting your ankle in a cast!

Runner's World suggests that, "many runners with flat feet overpronate, and overpronation can cause problems in your feet, shins and knees."
If this is truely the case, then running barefoot should help, since being able to feel how you are running, by paying attention to the messages from your bare soles, can greatly improve running form.

In addition, running barefoot allows the arch of the foot to flex, and work. It amazes me how many people still believe that to strengthen the foot arch, we should protect it from flexing and getting exercise!


this is from the Wikipedia article:


Does running barefoot with the correct technique reforms the flat flexible foot to a normal arch foot? is it proven???

Ken Bob Saxton: "Running barefoot, and any other activity that exercises the foot arch will improve it's condition. Can you reform it to normal? One would have to know what is normal. In a society with arches that have been supported all their lives, this is hard to know. Proof? Who is going to pay for scientific research that would prove you don't need to buy anything to have healthy feet? Certainly not the shoe companies. Certainly not the companies manufacturing shoe inserts. Don't expect scientific proof, in this society, for anything that is not profitable."

From Chris Jastram: "First of all, you have to prove that flat feet are in fact a problem, which some would debate. Barefoot running greatly strengthens and stabilizes the foot. My arches have raised, and I no longer need arch supports in my shoes. Your mileage may vary."

I have heard that the arch of the foot it is form during the first 5years or less, if it stays flat after that period it will remain flat forever it this true?

Ken Bob Saxton, "This is true to a certain extent. Just like running in the early years helps develop the rest of our body shape and abilities. Nonetheless, exercise in later years does help, even if some of us will never have perfect feet, or become elite athletes. Should we not do any exercise for the rest of our lives, just because we cannot achieve perfection? I think not."


here is a page with several links to barefoot-running pages:
http://www.barefooters.org/running.html

this is a great primer:
http://www.runningbarefoot.org/?name=HowRunBarefootOtherwise

[JasonE]

For those with flat feet, I highly recommend Grappler's Toolbox vol. 2. It has a few nice exercises for developing the ankles and the arches of the feet.

I also recommend walking in bare feet for a while before switching to running.

[SAB]

Wow, thanks for all the info Charlie !
Definitley something to consider. Am going to give it a try in Summer when the local football oval has changed from its current mud form. :)

Jason E -
are the exercises for arches anywhere else or only on GTB2 ?
(I have WW & Body Flow currently)

[JasonE]

I don't recall seeing those particular exercises on any more recent videos. However, here's a thread on flat feet with some info that you may find useful:

http://circularstrengthmag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3072&highlight=short+foot

I'd forgotten about it until just now. Post any additional questions that may come up.