Regarding spinal circles...

[dianneg]

Hi Tribe-

Lately I have been rediscovering my ww practice. I have gone back to the recovery part of the program for my upper spine and shoulders and have kept with cordiantion program for the rest of the spine and body.

I am questioning even having moved beyond beginner for this reason: I have never felt comfortable with the side to side spinal tilts. My right hip often aches after this portion of the practice. When I watch the dvd on coordination I heard Coach Sonnon mention, as if for the first time, the spinal circles are the movements recovered from the twists, tilts and thrusts. And as I really watch his movements it appears his hips aren't really part of the picture in the side portion of the circle.

So my question is two part. Are the circles upper and lower spine with little hip movement? And if I am performing them with the help of my hips should I move back to the dreaded side tilts? And if so, does anybody have advice upon how to adapt the movement so that it doesn't cause gaurding, pain and frustration? (Ok so it is a three part question....)

It's as if I can't even adapt the movement myself because I am so attached to the discomfort it brings I just want to avoid it altogether... :cry:


Thanks for understanding any advice. :P

in peace,
dianne

[KEVIN TEAGLE]

Dianne,

To begin with I want to applaud you for continuing to improve yourself and your movement. For being vigilant to even recognize a problem is nothing short of awesome. I am always going back to the basics, in all that I do. Not just Warrior Wellness. I am an accomplished musician and I regularly go back to the "dreaded full bar chords", and basic scale work.

First celebrate where you are now, so that you do not minimize the progress that you made. Please do this because you need to be motivated by what you have done already.

If you are willing, video tape yourself when you do the dreaded side tilts. Watch yourself and then watch Scott. AS you work on your movement pattern, be willing to make your tilt so incremental that it almost seems as if your not moving at all. Do not place judgement on how little you may have to move in order to stay away from pain.

Many people practice a movement at what they may consider a basic movement when in reality they are still either moving too fast, or they are recruiting local areas to accompplish the task.

all movement can be programmed to be separate as we learn more and more control in our bodies, but the important thing to remember is, as you struggle for perfection in your recovery of mobility, is do you feel better? Are you better than you was when you started, if so, once again celebrate.

With the elderly that I work with, I give them permission often to move only as they can, not as they think they should. Three years later many are moving better than their own grandchildren. (a pretty cool sight)

if your spinal circles have some hip movement in them and you feel good then great. If you want to eliminate the hip involvement for the pure joy of achieving, then go slow and easy first. I would offer more help but I am a visual person and I am terrible at this internet advice without the aid of watching you. And I hope my buddies will chime in soon to help you further.

For what it is worth.

Dr. Teagle

[JasonE]

Dianne -

As Kevin said, be proud of the progress you have made and explore your perceived trouble spots with a light heart. :D

Do you have an idea of why you feel such a desire to avoid the side tilt ROM? Have you sought out massage or anything else to help you open it up? What methods have you tried (other than Warrior Wellness) to explore it?

I often review the Basic movements, working a couple of reps, then blending them together into an Intermediate and/or Advanced movement. Here's an example:

1. BASIC: I work the Twist 3-5x R/L, then the side tilt 3-5x R/L, then the front/back tilt 3-5x R/L

2. INTERMEDIATE: Then I slo-o-o-wly begin doing Circles, tilting to the side, moving down to the front, then to the other side, then back to neutral. I do Circles to the front, back, left, and right, 3-5x both directions, and don't increase the speed unless I'm feeling loose and relaxed througout.

3. ADVANCED: If that's all good, I start doing Infinities, combining a front Circle with a back Circle into a continuus flow of smooth motion. I move more slowly at first, and increase speed gradually depending on how it feels. If I'm going for a deeper ROM, I'll keep it sl-o-o-o-w throughout. I always work each pattern the same number of reps in both directions.

This is just one example of how I might choose to review movements I know well and work into more sophisticated patterns. However, I sometimes notice that it is the simple movements that give me the most challenge when I am tight somewhere. Why? Because fewer joints are directly involved, and therefore less able to "cheat" me through the movement.

Please post your additional questions/observations... it was very astute of you to catch that ROM-avoidance. I think you'll be discovering even more about yourself soon. :)

[dianneg]

Kevin and Jason-
Thank you both for your responses.


Do you have an idea of why you feel such a desire to avoid the side tilt ROM? Have you sought out massage or anything else to help you open it up? What methods have you tried (other than Warrior Wellness™) to explore it?

With my yoga practice and my chiropractic care, I know that I have a tight area in my thoracic region. This area is also limiting my side to side thoracic movements to the left because my spine is slightly curved to the right and I have a lot of tightness/weakness on my right side (I'm not sure what muscle/s exactly are involved, perhaps the lats, traps and/or the eractor spinae?) Does that make sence? Anyways, maybe this could be preventing my tilt from extending as fully as the left side and unconciously I am trying to be as full in the motion as in the left side but I have resistance.

I often tell my students to notice the difference in their bodies from one side to the other and to be present wtih their experience. Maybe I need to listen to my own advice!! I assume that I already know that! Perhaps I do to a certain degree but it hasn't fully integrated into my practice.


I sometimes notice that it is the simple movements that give me the most challenge when I am tight somewhere. Why? Because fewer joints are directly involved, and therefore less able to "cheat" me through the movement.

Aha! That makes so much sence, Jason!


if your spinal circles have some hip movement in them and you feel good then great. If you want to eliminate the hip involvement for the pure joy of achieving, then go slow and easy first.

Kevin, I am grateful for this reminder as to why is it so important to do a movement or a practice! I am a perfectionist and I have to remember that slowly, slowly we make progress and not for the sake of making progress alone but for the sake of well-being. If our intention is not clean then our progression (or lack thereof) is in vain. And we may never progress or if we do we are always dissatisified with the state we are given, and that in and of itself is not progress but pure greed!

May all of your heartfelt and honest advice be as helpful to others as it is to me. :P

in peace,
dianne

[KEVIN TEAGLE]

Dianne,

Once again I applaud your attention to your progress and it is easy to see that you must be a good instructor. I am quite sure that you will progress further.

Kevin

[bluedrift]

Would it be beneficial to find and start with even more basic movements and build to your greatest capability?

I'm not sure what those would be, these are just examples, I'm not an expert.

Maybe the child pose(I think its called) where sitting on shins and use your hands on the floor to support your weight and then move in circles instead of just lying down on your knees.

In the five tibetans there is one where standing on the knees the tilt back is done - the experts would know best but maybe this would be easier with more control?

Just some ideas...

[dianneg]

Hi guys-

Yesterday while doing ww I intentionally moved in much smaller degrees when I got to the thoracic spinal movements (back and forth, side to side) as well in the full spinal tilts. I allowed myself to just move in very small degrees, whoa this is challenging on the ego I tell ya! :lol:

Kevin (Bluedrift)
I know which 5 tibetan you are referring to, the camel pose. That direction is not a problem it is more when I lean to the right and left that I feel resistance. But I like the idea of bringing it to the floor. I could try this as well.

I'll sign off here with a philosophical thought for you all to ponder: Why does our ego want us to do more even though it may hurt or cause the body discomfort?

Thanks again.

in peace,
dianne

[Coach Tran]

Dianne,

I may be heading to Boston as a get away with my girlfriends next week. Would you like to meet me up next weekend in Boston? PM me and let me know. Maybe I can help your warrior wellness?

Yours in CST,
Bao