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View Full Version : Sparring With Coach Sonnon, Round Two.



J.H. Myers Jr.
11-17-2005, 08:00 AM
Wednesday Night, I had to some time to think over a few of the events on Monday nights session. Also got some good advice from Tom Furman in the last thread, so I decided to put it all together and see what changes I could effect a day later.

For this second session, I brought in my training partner and good friend Chris, we also run the Summit Center School together. Chris is old boxer and full contact fighter, trained by New Yorks five time golden gloves winner, so that on top of years of training has made him a great MA guy. He also trained at Scotts open to anyone Iron Curtain school years back.

I was first up, so we went right to it. I have a habit of starting out easy, just a bad habit from trying to help my students learn to fight by letting them try something in a safe and learning environment. That had no place here, Scott used a straight in attack, but no legs. This time, the move for the throw was averted, I moved around it. When I came back at him, I walked right into a hip throw, which was pretty damn funny. Got up, kept going, I was also leaning my head away from punches this evening, never a good habit. I was fresh for these first few rounds, no sparring before hand, so I had a lot more energy. Scott noticed it at once and commented on the difference. By the end of that first two minutes, I had ramped up to nearly full speed and power, just pulling the juice on the strikes at the moment of impact. I know I hit Scott square in the face at least twice, only pulling at the last moment.

Next up was Chris, and he had his chin down. He and Scott traded shots and circled. His kicking methods are different from mine, and the sudden change in personal style certainly showed Scott some valuable openings in his own style he'll want to cover up. Chris is not easy or fun to step in on, the more you hit him, the better to him, but Scott did, repeatedly. The ward offs and counters and evasion were all very solid and well done. Getting to be an observer firmed up my opinions of our last exchange. Scott is fast, can get in close, hang there, and trade punches. I figured he'd pay hell to close on Chris, or maybe not even do so often. He was able to every time. Closing is a skill Scott is expert at, there is no denying it. Once in, he can trade punches.

So without revealing too much of Scotts style since the fight is near, I went into our next bout anticipating what I figured was his common game in the ring. Got some advice on the lean out, and put my head down more. This time I kept it there. It was a pretty common exchange of kicks and punches, my change up right leg hit a solid strike to the midsection. Scott to his credit, got several hooks in, I rolled em out, but I still felt them.

In a later bout, Chris used a fade away side kick very effectively and it was such a good move we reviewed how Scott could do this and use it as well. The exchange and learning was brief and we kept the energy high.

Together, we worked one min rounds with about 30 secs rest or more, and that gave Scott a total of about 12 or maybe 14 one minute rounds, 6 or 7 apiece with myself and Chris. It was nice to have some rest time.

We gave Scott some pointers on kicking and integrating hands and feet. As the goal is to help Scott get as ready as possible. He integrated these immediately, along with a tweek of his kicking style I pointed out and the change was immediate. I fought two subsequent rounds more conservatively, feeding out kicks and punches, evading attack. Scott got a few solid leg strikes in which later led to more feed back on how such things should be integrated to best effect and to set up other attacks.

After we were done, we had a great discussion on what does and does not work in MA. You train trad, and you do a pile of moves and have endless ideas, but you step up to go full - you fall back on such basic moves and combos you often wonder how anything else was ever thought of. The basic moves serve best and keep you safe.

We showed Scott some of our favorite combos and why they work. We discussed what his opponents are likely to do, how to counter or do the same and all in all it was a great learning experience for all.

We'll possibly do one more session this week. So many ideas came up that they ought to be worked on.

A day later my back is strained pretty damn badly, not sure when that happened, but it has limited my movement, just nags a bit. Naproxen is your friend.

Jack

Scott Sonnon
11-17-2005, 08:14 AM
Jack,

Alternating between a fresh you and Chris really helped cut my round stamina in half. With only 6 weeks to prepare, as it should. Really taxed the cardio. Excellent. :twisted: I've been fighting good athletes around the country from as many styles as possible, since San Shou is an open sport. You and Chris have a really straight and direct no-nonsense style. Thanks for the energy, amigo. 8)

AnthonyThompson
11-17-2005, 11:31 AM
thanks for shareing jack relly intresting

good luck Coach


Anthony

sames
11-17-2005, 12:30 PM
Good stuff. You rarely get to hear about actual competition training and methodologies. Professionals are way too secretive to maintain their competitive edge. This was good overview without giving away anything.

When Jarlo was preparing for his fight, I ate up his daily training logs. Great stuff! Keep it coming.

-steve

Scott Sonnon
11-17-2005, 12:52 PM
Had to adjust my boxing a great deal since mine was a bareknuckle approach concentrating on bodyshots. With 12oz gloves, bodyshots are minimalized unless you catch him on an inhale. Thanks to my boxing and kickboxing coaches (Brandon Jones and Joseph Wilson), I've incorporated linear setups to my more curvilinear "looping" blows I trained in Combat Sambo, ROSS and with the Russian national boxing coach. Too much curvilinear can make you vulnerable to tight precise boxers (contrarily, too much linear makes you vulnerable to the big bomb overhands, long hooks and shovels. :twisted: )

Working with the Muay Thai fighters really helped me realize how to integrate my low line leg attacks with leg fencing. And these Tang Soo Do and Shito-ryu fighters really helped me realize how to integrate the hands playing off the leg leads.

My grappling game is fine, but I did have to modify it a great deal to address the wearing of boxing gloves, and the 2 second rule. Having to throw within two seconds DRAMATICALLY changes the grappling game. However, not needing to worry about how the opponent lands means that I can conserve a lot of energy and not focus on landing him in a position of advantage to begin the ground game. No ground game in San Shou. :wink: Without knees and elbows though, the grappling game is a lot safer, since once within the optimal power range of strikes and kicks, being hit while in the clinch isn't too dangerous, unless you have some really good hips with tight hooks.

I also like fighting on a platform. As opposed to a ring or cage, you can't rely upon the boundary. Like in Sambo, you get penalized for going out of the boundary, so you focus more on forward pressure, and the aggressive defense rather than upon leverage.

Great stuff all in all. Love being able to throw down with so many different styles. Unlike more combative self-protection, the rule structure makes you focus on excellence in technique and timing... hones down the concentration to a small package of potential tactics. I enjoy stepping out of the orthodoxy as always, to keep the box from closing in. But you never can dismiss the benefits of high energy within tightly detailed rules of engagement. Sambo's a great sport because it helps you concentrate on setting up the throw perfectly to land in a postition of advantage. San Shou's a great sport because it helps you concentrate on how to use strikes and kicks to set up the throw. Thai boxing's a great sport because it helps you learn to fight in, but also out of the clinch to create distance offensively. They're all excellent delivery systems to trouble shoot your daily practice.

It's the 'energy' that matters, and how that energy transforms the style non-specific attributes of pressured improv, timing, awareness (within arousal), relaxation (Selective Tension) and rhythm... and of course how arousal compresses conditioning into a fraction. It's just not possible to tap these without some sort of Hard Work delivery system.

But bottom line is that it's good to slap leather with other athletes, break an honest sweat giving 100% so that both you and your opponent bring out the best in each other.

Chuck Kechter
11-17-2005, 01:50 PM
Right on!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

Jarlo Ilano
11-17-2005, 02:40 PM
Thanks for sharing all this!

Love it. Love all of it! :D

Makes me itchy for another fight. :lol:

Scott Sonnon
11-17-2005, 04:42 PM
There's a reason that we're secretive. And it's hard to describe to the public, but easy for people who fight regularly against new opponents. What works for the first 3 rounds doesn't work the same way after 12 rounds. The strategy you can use against a figther who hasn't scouted your strategy is completely different than the one you can use against your long time sparring partners. A fighter new to your strategy doesn't know what to expect, whereas you often have to set up your sparring partner for your goods, if they can work at all. When you travel around and fight new fighters from different styles, this becomes really obvious. But it's not so obvious when you don't fight outside your gym, circuit or even sport. I have the privilege of fighting people from all backgrounds and fields of experience, and as a result get to work a great deal on what I call the "5 minute game".

Here's a clip of some work we were doing to integrate hands with leg fencing as a warmup before CST Theta sessions: jab, soft hook into an overhook, duckunder with a trip.

Leg Fencing for San Shou (http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/images/insidetrips.mov)

These tactics don't necessarily work in the 5 minute game because once the opponent's on to your hip game, you need to switch strategies. I have 3 different strategies that I'm training: a 5 minute (my ambitious game), a 15 minute (my conservative game), and a 4th opponent strategy (my reserve strategy for when the opponent's have studied the timing of both my ambitious and my conservative games).

I may be able to blow through one or two opponents with my ambitious game due to my background in Sambo, but then I expect they'll be on to me. At that point, I'll kick in my conservative game, which Jack and Chris helped me shake out while I'm in PA. That may carry me through two to three opponents. By the fourth opponent, I may have to kick in my reserve strategy. Still hush, hush.

AnthonyThompson
11-17-2005, 04:50 PM
sweet clip coach thanks for shareing

Anthony

Chuck Kechter
11-17-2005, 05:26 PM
Great idea on the differing levels of your strategies...

Also, agree that, that is a nice clip!

sames
11-18-2005, 06:31 AM
Nice! Again thank you for sharing this training and experience with us. Looking good.

Coach Al-mulla
11-18-2005, 07:17 AM
nice clip coach and thank you for sharing your insight on stratergies for sport application

sambosteve
11-18-2005, 07:03 PM
What san shou event is this? It is not the USKBA event on Dec 10th is it?

Scott Sonnon
11-19-2005, 04:15 AM
No, it's not David's San Da event. I'll get the poster of the San Shou event up as soon as I can get to a stable connection.

Robert V
11-19-2005, 05:07 AM
I'm so pumped for you, Scott! I would love to be in your shoes(although they are big shoes to fill). I've been in love with San Da and San Shou for awhile. We have some good fighters here in Michigan.

The gloves do make a difference, but I think they make me a more "precise" fighter overall.

The way I look at it, a true Martial Warrior should be able to fight under any rules.

It looks like you have a great support system.

Again, I'm just so pumped for you!

sambosteve
11-21-2005, 03:41 PM
I found the event Scott.
Good luck man!