newbie question: (kind of longish)

[stre-tch]

I am new to clubbelling, but have taken up kettlebelling and clubbelling for the benefits they offer. My general question is how to get the most out of your work out with clubbells.

The day after working out about the only muscle that feels like I have worked it out is the triceps. right after my workouts my shoulders feel prettygood (I have one bum shoulder, lots of popping in the shoulder, going to the ortho surgeon to look at it on wed). and the forearms are pretty pumped up after doing mills. I was curious what you are all doing to get the dramatic results that I read about. If it is that you are exicuting the movements faster so you can generate more resistance or if you do the swings slower to concentrate on every muscle employed by the movement. I own the clubbell dvd and book on clubbells and was wondering what I was doing wrong. also when I finnish I am not really sweating much or huffing and puffing like I should be.

Any info and advice would be awesome thanks!

"The more I learn, the More I realize the less I know"

Russ

[PaoloValladolid]

Sweating, huffing, puffing, etc. for its own sake isn't really the point of CST. This very recent article explains it pretty well:

http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9324

[Scott Sonnon]

Russ,

The first step that people are making is not training over an injury. There's no way that you should be swinging Clubbells (especially to the over-training effect you're describing) when you have a doctor's appointment to determine the condition of your shoulder.

The first step in CST is called Tabula Rasa: or "Clean the Slate (http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/25/sonnon.html)." (Click on link and read the article.) Do you have Intu-Flow or Warrior Wellness?

What protocol are you using currently and why; what are your goals?

As per forum rules, please post an introduction including your full name in the Welcome Mat.

[stre-tch]

Thanks for the sound advice. I have read both of the articles that you both have advised and I will wait till after the appiontment to swing clubbells. but as to your question Coach, I dont own either of the two (into flow, or warrior wellness). I was thinking of getting bodyflow (I watched the clips and am interested in reclaiming the mobility that I had as a child) but would one of these be better or does one teach what the other has and more? I know the best thing would be to get them all and hopefully I will but where should one start? thanks again for all of your advice


Russ

[PaoloValladolid]

I really like Intu-Flow, but its hard to for Coaches like Scott to answer your questions without a statement of goals from you.

[Scott Sonnon]

Russ,

I'd suggest beginning with Intu-Flow. There's no reason to purchase everything at once.

[Robert V]

I wish I had intu-flow to begin with. It's a great foundation.

[Coach Hurst]

Definitely start with Intu-Flow. If you are only looking to get big and strong that is fine but at least do it the right way. Use Intu-Flow and learn how to use your body the way it was meant to move. Freely without injury.

I know I sound like an advert but Intu-Flow is seriously the way to do it.

[Coach Tran]

Definitely start with Intu-Flow™. If you are only looking to get big and strong that is fine but at least do it the right way. Use Intu-Flow™ and learn how to use your body the way it was meant to move. Freely without injury.

I know I sound like an advert but Intu-Flow™ is seriously the way to do it.

I second Ryan's opinion. I LOVE WW and will always have my bias for it, but if I had to compare it to Intu-Flow, then Intu-Flow is the best bang for your investment. Not saying WW is bad, but I believe most CST novices
would get the most from Inu-Flow.

[stre-tch]

so does into-flow incorperate things from warrior wellness (i.e. joint mobility)? if it does that sounds like the way to go. also one more question I promise :lol: My wife was looking at getting into yoga but from all I read flow-fit would be a better way to go. Or could she do into-flow and reap all of the benefits form that. I know this is kind of a hard question. all she is looking at doing is strengthening and toning of muscles in to least amount of time possible. she has had three knee surgeries (thanks to a trampoline incedent in high school) and the doctor said that yoga type excercises whould help strengthen the knee.


thanks for all of the great advice and all of the timely responses, it helps me to know what to do first so I can improve and not be frustrated at not progressing like I feel that I can. thanks again

Russ

[Scott Sonnon]

Russ,

Get Intu-Flow for both you and your wife. Run it by her physician, because I will bet that your doc will not only approve but come to endorse it for all his patients in similar conditions.

[PaoloValladolid]

I apologize if my post sounded gruff. To elaborate a bit, the integration of breathing, movement, and structure is a huge part of CST, and Intu-Flow gives you what you need to learn and practice this in one package. I really like the versions of the Spinal Rock (there are many versions) as presented in Intu-Flow, as they make it easier to learn how to let yourself be breathed by the movement.

[KD Jones]

Russ - I have both Warrior Wellness and Intu-Flow (and a number of other RMAX products) and I can honestly say that you don't need anything other than Intu-Flow to start with. I went on an enthusiasm spree buying references right off the bat - which is fine for me, because what I've learned here is only driving me forward.

But it wasn't necessary. IF you honestly persue Intu-Flow and IF you honestly use the training protocols (see intuitive training - remember that in the case of Intu-Flow RPE should be < 4) you will make gains in the direction of ALL (yes, all) the other products you will find here.

To be honest, I still use some of the WW movements that were "simplified out" of Intu-Flow, but they are in essence only sophistications, wouldn't be necessary for everyone (may not even be strictly necessary even for me), and are so much a logical precursor to Intu-Flow that IF you persue Intu-Flow whole-heartedly... you'd probably come up with them as sophistications anyway, if and when you need them.

But, in brief, Intu-Flow really is everything you need right now, and when the slate is clean RMAX will still be here to help you find your own way on (including the pursuit of yoga).

Blessings.

[stre-tch]

Thanks for the info and the advice, as soon as the good ol' tax return comes I'll be getting into-flow. only problem is waiting for it to come :wink:

one question for all. I went to the doc today to see about my shoulder, he said that I had torn some of the cartilage :shock: (spelling?) (he called it over extending my LMA or something like that) that helps support my shoulder in the sockett. he said to not lift anything over shoulder high for about a month, then to gradually start and see if it had healed. If not he would have to scope it and fix it he said it wasn't too serious. so I am going to take his advice and not lift above my shoulder for a month but I am going to continue to lift with my left arm (non-dominant hand). So here's the question should I not do anything at all with the left shoulder or just do movements that keep it below the shoulder so that it stays mobile and strong. If any of you have had this injury or know someone who has had it any info would be awesome on how they recovered and what they did that helped it the most. For now I will just be the one armed bandit and work on my left side and work on my legs. Thanks again for your comments

Russ

The more I learn The more I realize the less I know

[Scott Sonnon]

Russ,

Focus on one of the 7 Key Principles in CST: Shoulder Pack! Go incremental - baby steps. Use Intuitive Training (effort less than 6, technique 8 or higher, discomfort 3 or lower). Keep in contact with your health care team and keep communicating with them. Follow their guidance.

[stre-tch]

Coach thanks for your fast replys. sorry mine aren't that fast (fault of work and school) I have one question for you.

you said

Focus on one of the 7 Key Principles in CST: Shoulder Pack! Go incremental - baby steps. Use Intuitive Training (effort less than 6, technique 8 or higher, discomfort 3 or lower).

where do you find these 7 key principles? is it in the cst book? (I may have been reading too fast and skipped right over it )

I remembered what the doc said the injury was he called it a S.L.A.P. lesion. I don't know if you or any others have had it but I was wondering if any had been rehabilitated after using clubbells and which moves after it was healed had been the most helpfull

Thanks again for all of you help

Russ

[Scott Sonnon]

Russ,

The 7 Principles of Clubbell Training can be found discussed in CST Magazine, and moreso in the upcoming release of the Big Book of Clubbell Training.

What did your doctor prescribe for rehabilitation? Have you been following it, thoroughly, completely and to what result? Have you cleared this specific type of exercise with your doc? We work alongside of your health care team, not as a substitute.

[stre-tch]

The doc didn't prescribe anything for rehabilitation. he said just not to lift anything over my head or militarypress or bench press for a month then slowly start back into it and see if the shoulder is still popping. I know its not much to go on. I thought he would give me some sort of regiman of thing to do but he didn't say anything else. I will go read about the 7 principles in the magazine.

Thanks again for your help

RUss

[Scott Sonnon]

Russ,

Get actual clearance for this specific type of exercise from your doctor.

[PaoloValladolid]

Russ,

I went through the shoulder rehab process as well. You are probably frustrated by the restrictions imposed by your injury and your doctor. My physical therapist was very conservative. The best I can say to you is:

Be patient! And keep the lines of communication open with your doctor.

[stre-tch]

Coach & Paolo Thanks for taking the time to advise me. I know how hectic life can get. As for rehab. the doc didn't say anything about rehab. (he is an awesome doc, he works on all of the football and basketball players at a major university near here). He just said to let it rest for a month,(which I am doing) but he didn't give me any advice on what to start with to rehab it (I assume light weight & lots of reps in slow motion). Paolo what did you do to your shoulder, what excersises seemed to help and is it as strong as it was origanally? I know excersises that I may need to do are very different but at least it will give me some sort of an Idea of the things to ask the doc when I go back in, in a month? Thanks again for your help


Russ

[Coach Jones]

Russ,

Not really for me to say, but that never stopped me before :lol:

I can't imagine a sports doctor not referring a pateint to a PT for rehab, or at the very least mentioning it.

[Coach Simon]

I agree with you, Brandon.

Russ,

I suggest you contact your doctor, or go to another one. Tell your doctor that you want a referral to a rehab specialist. The premise "no movement, no improvement" applies in all but a few rare cases. You want to be prescribed the right movements, with defined movement restrictions. You also want a plan to recover the motions and to remove the restrictions.

You benefit most when you are a participant in your health care, not a victim of it.

Write down all of your questions before you talk with your doc. Make sure that you are satisfied with all of the answers. Most docs do not treat, they only diagnose and refer. Look into their eyes when they answer you. The same principles taught here apply. When it comes to rehab and exercise, even a doctor can not take you where they haven't been.

Good luck.

[HereBeADragon]

I'm not an expert on rehab but I've had to do it myself a number of times now :) When I seperated/dislocated my shoulder I made use to 2 tools to repair and rehad it. First my teach got everything back where it was suppose to be with Hilot then I used Warrior Wellness and eventually (once I got it) Intu-Flow to rehad the shoulder. Only took he 2 months to recover from that injury. One of the porgrams (warrior wellness or intu-flow) will probably be a good form of rehab for you. Check with your doctor and see what he thinks of that.

[stre-tch]

All of it sounds like good advice. so as soon as I get the ol' tax refund I will be getting the into-flow then I will run it by the doc to see what he thinks. :D . thanks again for all of your advice



Russ