Shoulder making a grinding noise

[llara]

I have noticed my shoulder making a grinding noise while exercising with dumbbells for the past year. This started concerning me because I had hurt my shoulder a few years back doing military presses and never got it checked out. When I first heard/felt the grinding in my shoulder I went to the doctor to check it out. After the visit, doctor advised that the x-rays should no signs of damage. I have already gone three times to different doctors with the same diagnosis.

The interesting thing is that I don't feel or hear the grinding while using the clubbells. When I go back to dumbbells grinding is back.

Is it the difference between the range of motion of clubbells and dumbbells?

If anyone has had this happen to them or have any insight, I would love to hear it.

Thanks,
Luis

[bob_stra]

> I have noticed my shoulder making a grinding noise while exercising
>with dumbbells for the past year.

... and with that, I'm reminded I have an article to write ;-)

>to check it out. After the visit, doctor advised that the x-rays should no >signs of damage.

IIRC X-rays can only accurately show damage to cartilage, as most tendons and ligaments are radiolucent. (ie: invisible to x ray). Never mind muscle damage.

On the plus side, at least nothing is apparently broken. I broke a finger a while back but didn't know it until I went in for a completely unrelated issue.

(yes, I really am that dense. I just thought I sprained it)

>The interesting thing is that I don't feel or hear the grinding while using >the Clubbells®. When I go back to dumbbells grinding is > back.

Given that its possible to do things more than one way, perhaps you are using yourself differently to perform military press with clubs and dumbbells? Consider how the hand position alone must affect the shoulder muscle activation.

*I'm not entirely sure what Clubbell exercises you mean. I'm assuming normal military press, not C4CST stuff. If you are referring to CST exercises, then note that the press to torch ain't exactly like a military press. Same reasons as above x 2*

>Is it the difference between the range of motion of Clubbells® and ?
>dumbbells?

I would imagine that clubbells would *allow* for a great range of motion. Considering the "leverage arm" is longer, once those puppies are swinging ...

Plus, you know, the whole CIRCULAR STRENGTH TRAINING thing ;-)

/sarcasm/

Is there a difference in the range of motion between clubbells and dumbbells? No - both = 0. Unless they're making new fandangle multi-jointed dumbbells.

/sarcasm/

>If anyone has had this happen to them or have any insight, I would love >to hear it.

I'm a one man marching band. For example, my traps SQUEEK (krrrmpppdddd dkkkr rrr) when doing backwards shoulder ROM rolls, yet no noise fwds. I can make a groovy sand sloshing sound when doing certain neck circles (God knows what that is - cerebrospinal fluid?). Wrists make a crack-crack-crack sound. Never mind what I can do with my spine. However, most of this *only* happens in one direction. I should get off my fat ass and work out why that is ;-)

I'm *meant* to be spending the next little while finishing up an article on just this. When I have it done, perhaps it may shed a little light on your question. Then again, maybe not. (I haven't collected all the information, so I don't want to jump the gun).

FWIW, I'm trying to expand on the idea here, so of which I may yet have to revise -

http://tinyurl.com/zoha

PS: If it hurts, stop doing it. Simple. You knew that - no need to appeal to a higher authority than yourself

[rbibbs]

Dumbbells tend strongly toward reciprocal motion, a lot of force in one direction at a time, distributed among a few muscle sets. In reciprocal motion, muscles tense for stability whether they're contributing to the load or not. The clunks and grinds are often the result of misplaced tension/uncoordinated relaxation. Unless they cause pain or instability in motion, don't worry about them much. Perfectly healthy teenagers have "shoulder clunks" too. I have musical ankles, but they're one of my most stable joints, never been injured.

Clubbells tend strongly toward elliptical motion. There is a lot less ambiguity in which muscles should be tense and which should be relaxed, and there is not a single focus of force, but a dynamic flow of force, muscles "handing off" the load in a coordinated sequence. That's part of why using CST/Clubbells develops articulate strength far more efficiently (in terms of both time and exertion spent) than 'grip-CG' weights used reciprocally.

If the grinding noise still bothers you, do WW arm infinities twice a day, concentrating on extension/relaxation (not exertion) and you may be able to recover "silent" transitions in shoulder motion. Particularly if the tension imbalance is a remnant from your injury.

Here are some links within the RRL forum that touch on shoulder function, and Bob has links within the links for you to explore.

http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=254

http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569

http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=354

Rick

[Scott Sonnon]

Superb post, Rick! Love to see that distinction in article form with comparing/contrasting exercises btw dumbbell/clubbell.

[rbibbs]

Coach, I actually get my hands on Clubbells for the first time this weekend at Doug's seminar, then I'll be in a better position to comment. Due to financial constraints, I've been "approximating" CST with handweights held and moved asymmetrically, this past year, with rewarding results, despite me being a "10" on the scale of hard-gainers.

I've been a VERY good boy, so maybe Santa will find a pair of 10s or 15s in my budget this Xmas.

Rick

[llara]

Thank you for the great replies. The links were very informative.

I have stopped using the dumbbells for a bit and doing some yoga and pilates until I buy my warrior wellness tape. Actually I noticed that when my left shoulder starts hurting the way it has been the last couple of weeks my lower back also hurts. I guess this is part of those kinetic chains I read about on the web site. There is so much I have to learn.

Please bear with me on my current and future naive questions,

Luis

[rbibbs]

Tension chain and kinetic chain are almost different sides of the same coin. Kinetic means 'in motion', it's a training/physical preparedness protocol, that is preventive and restorative of tension chains.

Tension chains are like, static impediments to sophisticated motion. WW will help you find and remedy these.

Everybody here Luis, started out 'naive'... that doesn't count against you. :wink:

Rick