FAQs: Prasara Yoga

[SteveB]

Hey, guys. Been a while, but there hasn't been a single day I haven't thought about the Tribe, and barely a day I haven't applied the lessons learned. For the last months, I was pumping up my training in prep for visiting my original karate instructor back in Atlanta. And was having problems with DOMS, and my sympathetic nervous system so hopped up I couldn't sleep. Yoga helped me calm down, especially the 1.5 hour Bikram series. But I wanted something more efficient, and dug out my Prasara. Took me about a week to re-learn the five basic sets, then started doing them GTG style: number them 1-5, five-6 times a day throw a die as a randomizer, and perform whichever one comes up. It worked like a charm, with an investment of only 15 minutes a day.

May I assume that those pushing through the NIE barrier either perform one repeatedly for 15-20 minutes, or go through the entire series one after another, or select specific forms to address specific problems? Kind of curious about how people address this.

Eagerly await thoughts!

Steve Barnes

[Joseph David]

Hey, guys. Been a while, but there hasn't been a single day I haven't thought about the Tribe, and barely a day I haven't applied the lessons learned. For the last months, I was pumping up my training in prep for visiting my original karate instructor back in Atlanta. And was having problems with DOMS, and my sympathetic nervous system so hopped up I couldn't sleep. Yoga helped me calm down, especially the 1.5 hour Bikram series. But I wanted something more efficient, and dug out my Prasara. Took me about a week to re-learn the five basic sets, then started doing them GTG style: number them 1-5, five-6 times a day throw a die as a randomizer, and perform whichever one comes up. It worked like a charm, with an investment of only 15 minutes a day.

May I assume that those pushing through the NIE barrier either perform one repeatedly for 15-20 minutes, or go through the entire series one after another, or select specific forms to address specific problems? Kind of curious about how people address this.

Eagerly await thoughts!

Steve Barnes

Hi Steve, really great to hear from you brother!!

In my practice, I've crossed through the NEI barrier with Prasara in few ways.

Repeating kinetic chains multiple times: as in FlowFit® or primary series Prasara.

Take two or three prasara flows and repeat in sequence 2-3 rounds going deep and not hemming out components by using speed and momentum to move through the coordinations.

Take the BME from GTB and pick 3-5 selections and circuit through them for reps and quality of movement.

Taking a BME that I have resistance in and working deeply to unbind flow.

Going into true Authentic Prasara where explorations of new combination become freeform flow.

Anybody else have some additions?

[LostArt]

Joseph, thanks for your response,

[chuckle] now I'm really confused.

First of all, I am asking this in theory since, so far, I bought all the “Clubbell® Training” stuff, and that’s all that I’m doing so far (I asked on another thread whether that’s okay and they seemed to say that it would be okay). I hope I’m not somehow screwing myself up, or something.

Anyhow, let me see if I have this right -- the three "rings" of CST are:

(1) Intu-Flow® - for inner-bag joint mobility
(2) Prasara Yoga - for outer-bag joint mobility
(3) Clubbell® Training - for athletic training

Now, I went through the RMAX catalog (the one that came with my Clubbell® DVDs and Big Book) and outlined it as follows:

[I] Intu-Flow®

(A) Intu-Flow® (2 DVDs)
(B) Intu-Flow® Package (3 DVDs, 2 Mini-clubbells, 2 posters)
(C) Intu-Flow® Complete Package (3 DVDs, 2 Mini-clubbells, 2 posters, 1 “Free to Move” book)
(D) Ageless Mobility® (1 DVD)

[II] Prasara Yoga

(A) Prasara Instructional Series “A” Flows (1 DVD)
(B) Prasara Flow Without Thought (2 DVDs, 2 Charts)
(C) Body-Flow (2 DVDs)
(D) Body-Flow (1 book)
(E) Be Breathed (1 DVD)
(F) FlowFit® (1 DVD)
(G) FlowFit® II (1 DVD)
(H) Forward Pressure (1 DVD)

[III] Clubbell® Training

(A) Big Book of Clubbell® Training (1 book)
(B) The Encyclopedia of Clubbell® Training (5 DVDs)
(C) Clubbell® Training for Circular Strength (1 DVD)
(D) Going Ballistic (1 book)

Now, are these ALL to be mastered, and in this order? If so, when do I get off of the Intu-Flow® stuff to begin with the other of the three "rings"? Yet, if FlowFit® is a sub-set of the Prasara Yoga, shouldn’t I wait until I master all of the “Intu-Flow®” stuff before I go to FlowFit®? And if not, why isn’t FlowFit® billed as the pre-requisite to Intu-Flow® if indeed, it is?

So, I am really confused.

Lost Art

[Chuck Kechter]

Joseph, thanks for your response,

[chuckle] now I'm really confused.

First of all, I am asking this in theory since, so far, I bought all the “Clubbell® Training” stuff, and that’s all that I’m doing so far (I asked on another thread whether that’s okay and they seemed to say that it would be okay). I hope I’m not somehow screwing myself up, or something.

Anyhow, let me see if I have this right -- the three "rings" of CST are:

(1) Intu-Flow® - for inner-bag joint mobility
(2) Prasara Yoga - for outer-bag joint mobility
(3) Clubbell® Training - for athletic training

Now, are these ALL to be mastered, and in this order? If so, when do I get off of the Intu-Flow® stuff to begin with the other of the three "rings"? Yet, if FlowFit®® is a sub-set of the Prasara Yoga, shouldn’t I wait until I master all of the “Intu-Flow®” stuff before I go to FlowFit®? And if not, why isn’t FlowFit® billed as the pre-requisite to Intu-Flow® if indeed, it is?

So, I am really confused.

Lost Art

LA,

First, what you master is totally up to you. How far (wide), or how deep you take all this is at your discretion. It totally depends on what you want (to get) out of RMAX/CST.

For Intu-Flow® -- you'll never "outgrow" it, or "get off it." It is the bedrock that all the other "systems" are built on. If you dropped everything else this is the one you should keep.

FlowFit® is indeed a subset of Prasara. It can be used as a stand alone conditioning tool, and/or a way to wring out the outer-myofascial bag, depending on how you approach your practice.

The same can be said for any of the Prasara flows. Do them slowly, holding the poses for 5 full breaths (or longer) and smooth out the transition points between poses and you have a great method for releasing myofascial density. Speed the flows up, doing so many "reps" for time (for example) and you have a conditioning tool.

Like Prasara, or Intu-Flow®, Clubbell® training can be done for mobility's sake, or for athletic training. The first three catalog items you listed (about CB) are training resources to help guide you where you want to go. Going Ballistic is a little different, in that it is specific CB exercises (and protocol) designed for training for boxing (or other striking martial art).

Hopefully this answered your questions.

Good luck!

[SteveB]

To find a conditioning tool that can also be used for recovery is rather remarkable. To find weaknesses in your flow and be able to define which asanas best address those problems, and then take them to a formal yoga class for work? Priceless.

[Coach Haggard]

Hi LA,

I am going to repeat some of what was said, but in a slightly different way. I am assuming you have never been to a CST seminar, so I am going to simplify my explanation a bit and I wont be talking about inner or outer bags etc . I will be more than happy to geek out on the technical side of the discussion if you want, but for now, here is a simplified answer to the questions you asked.

One of the 3 rings is Intu-Flow®. The primary focus is joint mobility. You initially work to regain your full range of motion in each joint and, as your training progresses, you build coordination and an increasingly sophisticated movement pallet. You do this by continuing to explore the full range of motion of each joint, but in incrementally more complex movement patterns. This is the foundation that we build our other training on. Very important. The resources for this ring come in various packages. There is the Free to Move book, Intu-Flow® DVD, The Xtension program (that is the one that comes with the mini clubbells). You also listed Ageless Mobility® which has elements of both the Intu-Flow® ring and the Prasara Yoga ring.

As was said earlier, there are crossovers in many of the products, but a different focus for each.

Another of the 3 rings is Prasara Body Flow Yoga. This is used for a number of things. One of those things is to achieve a deep release of tension that builds up as a result of exercise or other daily activity in order to prevent injury (from over training for example). As stated earlier, it can also be used as a stand alone conditioning tool. All of the resources you listed belong in the Prasara Yoga ring. Each has a different focus and there is not specific order you "have" to go in. I will make a suggestion to you in a moment, but to continue...

The 3rd ring of CST is Clubbell® Athletics. All of those resources you list correctly fit into this ring. I would like to add a small bit of additional clarification about the Going Ballistic book. That program was designed by Coach Jones specifically for training your muscles to fire quickly (presented in the context of Boxing/ striking). The protocol (which is based on the often misunderstood principals of Tabata training) is more important than the actual exercises selected. The book also assumes some familiarity and skill with the clubbells. You do not want to start with this program. You would do well to become familiar with a variety of Clubbell® exercises (say from the Encyclopedia of Clubbell® Training for instance) before beginning the training laid out in this book. You definitely don't want to start swinging clubbells ballistically if you are unfamiliar with a certain exercise . That could get very exciting!

Keep in mind, I tried to keep the explanations simple. Joint Mobility, Compensation, Conditioning. The "magic" happens when they are trained together in a specific and synergistic way. That should not be your concern right now. Become familiar with each piece, so that you can use them more effectively together later on. As a kid, we learn our letters first, then form sentences, and eventually, with a lot of practice and experience, we may one day become talented writers like our own Coach Murdock.

Here is my opinion (only one of many ) on one good way to start. This is based on my own experience and how I rebuilt my fitness after a nasty injury and several months of rehab (basically I was starting from scratch). Daily practice of Intu-Flow®. This really is the foundation. I can't say that enough. The Intu-Flow® DVD is a great resource for this. If you want a lot more information about the theory and "why" of it, also get the Free to Move book. For the Prasara ring, I suggest starting with FlowFit® (found on the FlowFit® 1 DVD). It will give you a good foundation for any future Prasara practice. It is also a very versatile program that I have used for a warm up or a really good conditioning tool that has left me wrung out and shaking at the end of a 21 minute session (21 rounds of the level 4 flow in 21 minutes). It sounds like you already have Clubbell® resources and are at least a little familiar with this ring.

Keep in mind, I am making these recommendations with no knowledge of your goals. If you have specific goals you are working toward or areas of interest you are pursuing, we could make more specific program recommendations. Also, if you live near a CST professional of some kind, I would recommend that you look them up and train with them if possible. There is no substitute for training with a live, knowledgeable person. That is another piece of advice I offer from personal experience .

I hope this was helpful to you. If I confused you more...I am sorry. Let me know what is still confusing and I will be happy to attempt to clarify .

-Dennis

[Coach Haggard]

To find a conditioning tool that can also be used for recovery is rather remarkable. To find weaknesses in your flow and be able to define which asanas best address those problems, and then take them to a formal yoga class for work? Priceless.

I like it Steve .

[LostArt]

Thanks all of you for helping me to understand this stuff. Besides JD's and CK's, Coach Haggard's explanations were particularly enlightening.

My personal goals initially were just to find an alternative to lifting weights (which I've done since age 16 in one form or another, will be 58 this June). Since I am realtively injury free (I did manage to impinge my left rotar-cuff last summer by, of all things, constantly taking off and putting on a mini-backpack while trudging around Rome). Other than that, I just want general strength and conditioning, which the clubbells are amaizingly good for. My home gym has been rendered nearly obsolete by them. (Which reminds me, do people who use clubbells ever lift weights? Also, can I do neck machine lifts and leg-bicep curls exercises since clubbells don't seem to address those directly?)

Anyhow, so far I have the 5 Clubbell®® Encyclopedia DVD's and the "Big Book," as well as the 3 Intu-Flow® DVD's, "Free to Move" book and Mini-Clubs along with pairs of clubbells 5, 10, and 15 lbs.

I am gradually munching through the books and DVD's and am getting more of a grip on what's going on.

Believe it or not, just in a few weeks, the rotar-cuff situation is nearly resolved (had it for 9 months before) by using Intu-Flow® techniques. But now I am wanting to learn this stuff more thoroughly so that I can teach several friends who also have shoulder issues, as well as women friends who simply want to get into shape.

Anyhow, I am about ready to get the Prasara Yoga Quick-Start Package (the Prasara Yoga Instructional DVD and the "Presara Yoga Book"). Will these be enough to give me basic Presara understanding and practice? This Prasra package seems to be a bit different from your (Coach Haggard) approach, saying that for the Prasara Ring, start with the FlowFit®® 1 DVD as a foundation for Prasara practice.

So, which is the better begining for Prasara practice: the "Prasara Yoga Instructional DVD" or the "FlowFit®® 1 DVD"? Or, are they the one and the same thing?

Sorry to belabor these issues, but I am trying to not get too many potential redundancies.

Thanks again, all,

LostArt

[Coach Haggard]

Hi LA,

I am glad I was able to help.

Don't worry about belaboring anything...there is a lot to process here and you are just getting started. No worries.

To answer your questions:

Do people who use clubbells ever lift weights?-

I assume you are speaking of using conventional free weights or machines and doing standard isolation exercises like bench press or bicep curls. The answer is...it depends. Let me explain. Swinging weights in 3 dimensions (clubbells being our primary tool for this) is vastly preferable for a number of reasons. This is probably why you have found your home gym becoming obsolete . However, I have known someone who was pursuing a certain performance goal and was using certain CST Clubbell® exercises to achieve that goal. During their execution of one of the exercises, they found a leak in their performance that was tied to a strength deficit in a specific range of motion. In order to perform the Clubbell® exercise properly and progress toward achieving their overall goal, they needed to restructure their training to address this weak spot and add some General Physical Preparedness (GPP)...basically they needed to shore up the foundation before building any further upon it (creating a solid foundation before sophisticating the movement). One of the exercises added was the Military Press with dumbells. When the appropriate strength gain was made in that range of motion and the gap in his performance was addressed, the simpler movement was discarded and the exercise was sophisticated again. So, the answer is yes, sometimes 2 dimensional weight training exercises are used, but as a tool in a box and for a specific purpose. There is nothing inherently evil about them. One of our primary focuses, though, is quality of movement and that requires sophistication. The other example I can think of is if someone is using CST training, but also competes in a sport that uses conventional lifts. Joel Seymore does Strong Man competitive training and I believe has Olympic lifting background also...I am not sure. He has a lot of experience in this area though, and you would probably see him using conventional lifting techniques for his sport...a big guy and moves really well. His Prasara has become pretty good . I would love to see the looks on peoples faces when a big guy like Joel drops into a yoga plough pose...they don't expect a guy his size to be able to do that.

LOL, that was a long answer to your first question.

Next question:
Also, can I do neck machine lifts and leg-bicep curls exercises since clubbells don't seem to address those directly?-

You can...as above though, I would ask yourself why you want to do these exercises specifically. Is your interest to address a certain performance goal, or is it aesthetic (such as preparing for a bodybuilding competition?). While training with CST can surely result in a solid good looking physique, that is not our focus...just a really cool by product of our training . I have found exercises within the 3 rings that address every conceivable part of my body...actually, I have been sore in muscles I didn't know existed before . One of the differences you will notice as your study deepens, is that CST approaches the body as an entire unit. Certain exercises may stress one part of the body more than others, but the focus is on the whole body rather than isolation. We are getting dangerously close to me geeking out on you with a bunch of technical details again, so I am going to move on. Don't be afraid to ask clarifying questions.

It is good to hear that your rotator cuff is doing better. Keep up the Intu-Flow®. That program is pure gold.

It sounds like you have some good materials to work with.

To answer your last questions...

Anyhow, I am about ready to get the Prasara Yoga Quick-Start Package (the Prasara Yoga Instructional DVD and the "Presara Yoga Book"). Will these be enough to give me basic Presara understanding and practice?-

Absolutely! Coach Sonnon provides an incremental approach to the 5 cardinal Prasara flows on that DVD. Take it incrementally and you will do fine.

This Prasra package seems to be a bit different from your (Coach Haggard) approach, saying that for the Prasara Ring, start with the FlowFit®® 1 DVD as a foundation for Prasara practice.-

That was just a suggestion of one way to do it. The approach of reading the Prasara book and using the Prasara Yoga Instructional DVD is equally valid. You will do fine with this approach. Like I said a second ago, just go incrementally...there is enough material on that DVD to keep you busy for quite some time.

So, which is the better begining for Prasara practice: the "Prasara Yoga Instructional DVD" or the "FlowFit®® 1 DVD"? Or, are they the one and the same thing?-

They are not one and the same thing. I also would hesitate to say that one is better than the other...I would just say they are different. Which is better would depend on your overall goals. I love both programs and practice them both regularly. Even so, I always find something about them that I can do better...especially if I am around Coach Ilano...it is quite humbling to work with him in a Prasara class...he is simply amazing.

Well, this was a long answer to your post. I hope it was helpful to you also. I am a little tired right now, so if it is fuzzy at all, don't hesitate to ask more questions. It sounds like you are on the right path. I think you will do well with whichever route you take regarding your Prasara practice. The key is to do the work once you get the material. If you do that, all kinds of good stuff will happen .

Let us know how it goes.

Dennis

[LostArt]

Thanks for the time and info Coach Haggard.

Don't worry about being too technical when answering me, I love all that "geeky" theory. When younger I'd devour muscle and martial art mags and books, especially stuff like Hatfield about lifting theory or Joe Weider's PhDs who'd expound about new breakthroughs on muscle-growth theory, or Blackbelt Mag's and Inside Kung Fu's stuff about various things. Never could (can) get enuff of that stuff, so I feel right at home here.

Anyhow, I see this is a case of "I probably won't understand the Prasara thing until I get the instructional materials and apply them." That's how the clubbells were and the Intu-Flow®, too.

BTW, three pragmatic questions:

(1) Where does one buy that cool, low parallel dipping bar (or is it a high pushup bar?)?

(2) Is there a directory somewhere of CST instructor locations so that I can find one nearest to me?

(3) I noticed on an article about clubbells, that they range from 5 lbs. to 80 lbs. So, were does one buy them beyond the 45 lb-ers?

Thanks for all the help.

Lost Art