Trinity squat vs. Horse Stance

[dragon]

I was thinking that the Trinity squat is somewhat similar to the Horse Stance in Karate/Kung Fu. Of course, there are differences but do you see value in doing the horse stance for strength?

Seems to me that it's similar to say a plank in that it's building isometric strength since it's a static hold.

Thoughts?

[Coach Jones]

There is great value to training the horse stance, but most of that isn't about training strength. Though strength does come from it, the strength devleloped is not only as you have pointed out - isometric but also pretty specific. The greatest value is in the doing. Understanding a small moment of time very well.

What your goals are determines whether or not it's good for you or not. If you're a martial artist, then I recommend it highly. If not, there are probably a million exercises that would provide you with what you need a lot better.

[dragon]

Thanks for your quick response!

Actually, I have trained MMA in the past and due to injuries and my busy schedule have been forced to rest certain things and heal.

I do plan on getting back into MMA soon.

Would you say an advantage of the Trinity squat over the horse stance is that you get stronger at 3 different positions/joint angles as opposed to just one?

Thanks. Brian

[Coach Jones]

It's tough to say, Trinity Squat "over the Horse Stance". The Trinity Squat is much more sophisticated, combines movement, breathing and structure and is more dynamic.

People who need to practice the horse stance would do well to work on the Trinity Squat as well. Everyone doesn't need to develop their horse stance.

In MMA for example, there is no horse stance to be had. It just isn't something used in that sport. If you're a traditional martial artist, you are going to have a horse stance. So there is a great need to practice that and all the stances for that matter.

Outside of TMA, there are better ways to build strength in the legs than standing in a horse stance. Not just a Trinity Squat but others as well. The thing is that the horse stance is much more than an exercise or even a position. There are few things that can help develop self-discipline, percevierance and good old school mental toughness like having to stand in a horse stance for an hour or so.

If you regularly engage in that type of training your legs will get strong, but if you don't need that type of training there are other ways to build the leg strength.

[hammer_2020]

Isometric training, by and large, is specific to the joint angles and muscle lengths involved in the drill. For that matter, so is all training. Hence, standing in a horse stance will lead to greater strength (and strength-endurance) in that particular position, with relatively little carryover to other positions.

While that may sound like a bad thing, bear in mind that most people are not very strong in the postures involved in a horse stance without some pretty specific training. Hence, static stance training serves to iron out weak points in posture, which also tend to be important transition points in the movements patterns of martial arts that practice this kind of training. Furthermore, the purpose of stance training is to learn how to adopt essential postures with minimal muscular effort (ie. letting your structure do all the work) to ensure the development of maximal mechanical advantage in a given posture. As an aside, by constantly loading the bones over time, they do become denser and stronger as a result. Of course, any weight-bearing training has a similar effect.

Also bear in mind that different chinese styles have different basic stances. A northern horse stance (four parallels) is different from the two predominant in the south (sheep-clamping and triangle), and training each will develop different attributes, despite the core factors common to all of them. Bear in mind your specific needs, as Coach Jones said, and train accordingly.

To my mind, horse stance training falls into the fuzzy zone between GPP and SPP and should be done as a background exercise. A lot of old chinese martial artists used to maximise their time by doing as many drills as they could in the horse stance - this had the added benefit of training a more 'alive' stance that could cope with constant force transfer in real time, depending on the exact drill in question. Some styles have absolutely no static stance training and focus entirely on dynamic drills, such as some taijiquan and other internal schools.

On a final note, if you're training for MMA, you should follow your coach's advice. If he's training you on a base of CMA and decides you need to do more stancework, then go for it. Otherwise, you might be better off with more ring-specific training.


Two cents, as always.

[dragon]

Wow!!!

Great responses. Extremely insightful and thorough. Very educational for me. Thanks.

Honestly, as I mentioned I will get back into martial arts soon (either MMA or TMA) but currently just trying to train for general attributes (strength, speed, endurance, pain free mobility, agility, etc). Super busy with school (Trig and History), full time job, military obligations and family. I also play pickup basketball every once in a while although I'd like to play more.

I just asked about the horse stance out of curiosity because it seemed kinda similar (yet different) to a Trinity squat. For leg strength right now, I'm doing the Trinity squat and the 4 Corner Balance Drill daily. Additionally, I'm doing other things like sprints, jumping movements, jump rope for other attributes. I like these two bodyweight movements better than say barbell squats because my knee hasn't been bothering me as much as it has in the past with barbell squats (maybe poor form I don't know), convenient-can do at home and are more "athletic" (motor control-esp 4CBD).

I do like Trinity squats slightly better than say a horse stance simply because I feel it strengthens 3 joint angles as opposed to just one. Not to say the horse stance isn't good.

Thanks again guys! I really appreciate it. I love the concepts on this forum.

[dragon]

Besides the Trinity squat and the 4 Corner Balance Drill, what other bodyweight movements do you recommend for leg strength if one didn't have a kettlebell or Clubbell®?

[Coach Jones]

Working through FlowFit® is a good start. Walking to the computer and ordering clubbells and/or kettlebells would be another.

[dragon]

I don't have FlowFit®. How much is it? Maybe I'll order it soon. I'd love to get a Clubbell® but price seems kinda steep honestly.

[Coach Jones]

You'd have to check the store for the price of FlowFit®. I don't know it off the top of my head.

I'm not trying to sell you on the Clubbell® (or Kettlebells for that matter) just saying that if you're focusing on leg strength it doesn't hurt to have a few tools in the old arsenal designed to help with that.

There are a ton of bodyweight exercises you can adopt. As long as they're peformed correctly and safely and address the things you want to address then you're fine. You'll get better results from correctly apply the exercises in accordance with a well designed program - which is why I recommended FlowFit®.

On a very basic level, as long as you're stressing the muscles and spending adequate time under tension you're going to see some results. the quality of those results will differ depending on your diet, consistency, proper scheduling and overall quality of your training program.