No touch knockdowns - Sonnen do this?

[Mike]

What was that???

[Coach Tran]

I love see a martial artist knock me down without touching me using his psychic powers. I am doubting Thomas until I experience it myself. The only person who ever done this to me was my father when I was a boy. I was very naughty as young lad. My old man's piercing eyes after correction truly knocked the spirit of me. LOL.

Sincerely,
Bao

[Chuck Kechter]

Fakes and feints. . .

Psychological "voodoo" :twisted: :wink: utilizing the flinch response and patterned reflex.

Understand emotional/hormonal arousal, the flinch response, natural reactions and movements and this is an easy "skill" to play with. . .

I've seen "expert" professional fighters in the ring fall for the "flinch-draw" many times.

Mostly though, this is more of a parlor trick than a reliable tool. Cause unless you cause your opponent to fall down a flight of stairs, or out into the street to get hit by a bus, he's going to pick himself up and light you up even more than he might've before, for making him" look" foolish, on top of whatever reason he had for coming at you in the first place.

V/R,

Chuck

[James Boelter]

I saw Kumar Frantzis do much the same thing in his Tai Chi Fighting Applications tape. He never actually touched his opponent, but through rapid and adroit manipulation of personal space and multiple sequential 'body feints' that made his opponent 'flinch' and lose focus, he put the fellow down on the ground. This was done well within normal trapping/grappling range.

I have my problems with Frantzis, but he was very honest here about what was going on - he made no claims of psychic energy, etc., just sophisticated use of balance and intent. And the rest of the tape, while obviously a matter of his two TKD opponents feeding him a series of 'fat pitches', did show good use of uprooting skills and creating vulnerability in the opponent.

[Coach Jones]

I watched the clip again and...well...maybe i'm missing something but why exactly are they falling to the ground. I understand the flinch-draw response thing but how does a man leaning slowly forward cause me to have such a profound reaction that I fall to the ground like a sack of potatoes? I don't get it.

I hope this was meant to be simply an exagerated example of a specific concept.

[James Boelter]

It also reminds me of the 'Kong Jin' ('empty force') chi training that some people, especially I chuan/dachenquan masters claim to have mastered. Jane Hallendar (who is a disciple of an I Chuan master) and Jan Diepersloot both claim that what actually is going on is a demonstration of 'sensitivity' between master and student - a level of communication and interaction that takes years to develop and involves a certain amount of cooperation.

Hallendar further notes that while a serious offensively minded 'discharge' of kong jin against the average person might make them very sick one or two days later, the 'immediate' self-defense ramifications are hardly practical.

[JasonE]

I keep thinking "uppercut", "shoot", and the like. This is one of those demos that would fail miserably if random people from an unacquainted audience were selected.

This guy should fight George Dillman.

[Randell Waddell]

Can I suggest that if one looks at it analytically, confusion is being set up between, say, the visual cues and what is being experienced internally through the mecho-recepters etc , and a choice is being made by the brain / body to move in a reactive way.

I relate this to why a lot of people could not stand on a cliff or high building whilst a slight breeze is blowing or clouds are moving past - although cognitively one realizes they can "drop their weight" down into the ground, the stressful situation percieved hijacks the sensible reaction, fear (as in Tony Blauer's "false evidence appearing real" concept) takes over, and things can go crazy.

I believe some systems, such as Baqua where one's movement around the aggressor is circular and they are having to track you upon a moving horizontal background (which the eyes don't like because the brain favours spotting and allowing the head to catch up with the eyes), utilizes this phenomina to their advantage. I suggest such movements disturb the aggressor's intent, inducing a state of semi-confusion in them similar to highlighted in the paragraph above, disturbing their OODA loops and allows you to attain some sort of advantage even though it may only be for some 50 - 200 msecs.

Note this is purely my own interpretation - I haven't ever been given this as specific info from any of the Baqua people I have been lucky enough to train with, and they may actually hate the idea.

Cheers
Randell.

[Scott Sonnon]

Randall and James

What you refer to is well represented in this clip of Hatsumi. However, in Softwork we will not be going through the awkward and ineffective decades long learning process of "rote technique" memorization. It can accidentally and indirectly lead one to mastery, but it is certainly not necessary, and not direct - which is why expression like Hatsumi is rare and not the norm.

My martial art is heavily influenced by my Russian martial art experience especially with my teacher Alexander Retuinskih, patriarch of R.O.S.S. As you'll discover at the seminar though, Softwork is universal and with the specific purpose of cultivating within the individual their own personal style. Truth is truth once you transcend the concept of "technique" - as you release your own personal mastery, it all tends to 'look alike' though personally expressed differently.

[jrat]

Randell,
Your comments on bagua sparked thoughts...a similar idea has been mulling in my head for a while, although no concrete theory has emerged.

I agree the human eye is challenged by curved or circular motions, but I wonder if it is not the contrast between straight and circular and vice versa that creates the confusion, or dis-orientation.

Of late though I've had the opportunity to train with a gentlemen with an immense background in the Chinese internal arts, including bagua. Although this is only one man so isn't a great sample to draw from, his attacking style is circling, but upon seeing an opening changes to a distance closing linear attack.

On the other hand, my background is in Japanese/Okinawan karate, where the approach (in the beginning, at least) is ultra-linear... dis-orientation is created by being unwaveringly straight, minimizing the up/down and side to side movement in an attack, and in so doing, reducing the opponents 3D perspective to 2 or 1D.

In either case, as you alluded, the time gap is not large so acceleration or sharp change is key to having the desired effect.

Last year, I visited a buddy in Nashville, where there was an art exhibit our wives wanted to visit. It turned out to be a great experience, far beyond what I expected. First of all, it had paintings from all the big names. The organization was such where the paintings were grouped by technical themes and the themes were explained so even a novice like myself could come away with a higher appreciation.

By the time we'd went through, a number of ideas that were written in the various explanations (which I went back through and wrote down) tied in to the martial themes I had been thinking of--relative speed and Ma-ai (the Japanese term for the space between the notes, so to speak).

Here are my notes:
--Value: refers to light & dark patterns that make an object look 3-D

--Rounded surfaces show an even flow of value from light to dark.
--Angular surfaces show a sudden contrast of light.
--Criteria--Do your value changes flow evenly on rounded objects and CONTRAST sharply on angular ones?

--.....manipulating color's tendency to advance or retreat relative to the relative warmth of the surrounding hues...created tapestries of light, formand...

--with its tradition of featuring interesting arrangements of shapes, colors and textures, the painters abstracted still life elements into interlocking and layered planes, combining allusions to the seen world with purely non-referential geometric shapes.

--lyrical references to ancient pictographs, music, mathematics and other abstract languages symbolize the unseen forces that animate both nature and humanity.

--artists can give form to the reality that lies beyond the visible world.

--the greatest thing art can suggest is the rhythm of life itself.

I'm thinking about how a fighter can actively/strategically shape space....I'd love to hear your insight.

All my best,
John