On The Script of Trolling

[Scott Sonnon]

With our resounding successful and ongoing growth, come the unfortunate by-product of the presence of "trolling" - the internet behavior of stirring up trouble for the simple fact that it's difficult (but not impossible) to be held accountable for one's actions.

As I've been around on the internet since it's early years, I've had the (mis)fortune of watching how these individuals progress in their behavior. This is my suspicion. These people with the tendency of the online behavior labelled as "trolling" are actually seekers who have been traumatized so badly that they don't realize that they are damaged goods. They lash out at anything which resembles having the potential for healing or substance or high performance because they are too afraid of feeling retraumatized should they fail, or should the approach fail to help them heal. They secretly CRAVE something out there to work for them.

Trolls love to claim that they can come on to an organizational discussion forum, behave belligerently and deserve "free speech". I'm sure that other less orderly and positive forums will find some protestation that one cannot question here. And we all know that's simply not true. As a matter of fact, because of customer feedback, RMAX has evolved enormously, as any long time customer can attest.

PLEASE question EVERYTHING! But do so like an adult, and not in a manner which would get you smacked face to face. Trolls will be back. They can't help themselves. Why?

Because secretly, though they have not yet admitted it to themselves, they want to believe that there is an alternative to the mundane drivel of convention. So although they may have had someone pee in their cornflakes that morning, if they return in civility, let's not hold it against them.

But like one of my teachers said to me during our beach lifeguard exam, "A drowning person will try to kill you for just one more gulp of air." An online forum for physical culture isn't a strong enough or appropriate enough 'bowl' to hold those emotions. Some of these people who can't control themselves need a person to person therapist.

There's a script people play when a person's issues have become insurmountable. I've unfortunately seen this script played out time and time again. So, this little outline may help us understand where they are in their progression:

• 1. Isolation - becomes quiet or inaccessible.
  2. Possessiveness - begins gathering about himself his contributions
  3. Defensiveness - begins acting out against perceived threats
  4. Aggressiveness - begins making overt unreasonable demands
  5. Belligerence - begins making overt attacks throwing out terms like "cult" or "marketing hype" or "control freak nazis"
  6. Guerilla Attacks - resigns to the proliferation of much more covert insidious attacks here and abroad the internet
  7. Disappearance - runs out of steam and skulks on to next projected object of their insecurities and fears

Like Steve Barnes wrote,

RMAX speaks of genuine self-transformation, through hard, honest work and the building of community. This is terrifying to the ego, and it will fix on any perceived imperfections to avoid trying something that might genuinely awaken the spirit. RMAX points out an actual, working path to self-transformation. Truth is, the better RMAX gets, the more it will be attacked. Get ready, folks. The ride is about to get rougher.
Steve

[Doc]

Coach, I think you hit the nail on the head. Before coming to the RMAX forum I was a regular on a certain Wing Chun forum. It wasn't as bad as some, but had its problems nonetheless. Trolls were a frequent occurence. People used pseudonyms, so you were never sure who you were dealing with. Certain undesireables would be banned, only to show up later with a different pseudonym. After some obvious bad behavior, I pointed out there that people shouldn't treat each other any differently on the forum than they would in a face-to-face situation. You know what the overall response was?....I was told that my expectations were too high! I was told that I should lower my standards and just put up with the nonsense! I thought to myself....I know there has to be a place where forum participants are required to use their real names....are required to introduce themselves so everyone knows a little about them.....where trolls are not tolerated.....where everyone is expected to treat each other as they would in any polite face-to-face conversation.....and where the members are oriented towards modern sports science and biomechanics rather than the oriental "mystique." And I was right! I got lucky and found that forum! Keep up the good work RMAX!!!

[Scott Sonnon]

It's great to have you here, Keith! 8)

[stickfighter]

Re: Trolling, I've always liked this little item....

http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/f...detotrolls.htm

[KD Jones]

I'm completely on board with this, and am happy to see it presented so directly.

I came to this forum, first because Steve Maxwell said there was good stuff here which would be of great help. He was right. Second, I found that the relative respectfullness here was a great relief from some of the nonsense on my previous forum of choice, where the advice was "don't read the threads you don't like." Now, that's all fine and good from a "free speech" perspective, but I just couldn't figure why, if it really was a forum to a purpose, I should have to seek all the nonsense out, just to find out what the nonsense was, in order to avoid it. Why shouldn't I have at least some hope that anything I read would be close to the purpose for which the forum exists? Wouldn't that be a powerful thing.

So, here we are, blessed by purpose. Thanks to everyone (which means everyone here) for their efforts to hold to our one, encompassing, meaningful and deep target.

Blessings.

[AdamCrafter]

I already think that this Forum's insistence on Real People using Real Names was a great step to having a mostly garbage free forum.
-=-
I have a favorite article about the construction and continuance of Online Groups:
A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy
A speech at ETech, April, 2003 by Clay Shirky
http://shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html
-=-
It has some ideas about how groups fail and how groups last.
I do not know if some of his ideas might help us, but I REALLY want this forum to be here and to continue and grow.
I do not comment as often as I read, but I'm working to improve the amount and content of things I say here.
-=--=-
Lately, I have been absorbed in my school studies. I'm enjoying how much Scott's work has been laying a framework in my head for my Physiology courses. Inter-related Structure is everywhere, and I'm having a blast on seeing more connections as I go.

Yours in Practice,
Adam

[James Boelter]

Your spiritual generosity does you credit, Coach, but I think the theory leaves out the depressing fact that some people are just "no damn good".

I like the idea about a group being its own worst enemy. That's a nice bit of sociologically oriented thinking, and it never truer than in a space where people can't be held accountable for what they say (or post).

Oddly, though, the ongoing phenomenon of 'Wiki'... in which everybody contributes, everybody collaborates, and everybody cleans up the messes...has been (mostly) a great success. A "Wiki" space has a unique feel to it...online forums (even nicely maintained and moderated ones like this) don't come close.

Two great examples of this have been "Wikipedia", and "WikiWikiWeb". (The latter site is more oriented to programmers and designers, but it is still a great Wiki showcase.) I once spent four hours once jumping around in "WikiWikiWeb" and never found a "troll" post - lots of empatically stated opinions, of course, but no insults, harangues, or slander.

[Richard English]

A few months ago, I was surfing the internet and came across a site called "iron garm" which fit this bill perfectly. Looking at it, it was easy to determine that it was not so much a place of information, but a den of trolls (mostly anyway - we can't judge everyone based on a first glance). I've never seen a place which was so anti-everything, resistant to investigation, and cursing each other out when their views didn't pass through their own narrow view of reality.

The only reason I bring this up is because I remembered the RMAX site taking a beating there, but at the time, I didn't know who you guys were.

So, yes, I support Dr. Sonnon's observations above. My opinion only, of course.

[Ziggy]

I've been here before a long way back and I'm happy to be back here among the more enlightened. I have been on other forums that were full of "trolls". The one that stands out the most is one on organic gardening that had regular visitors who had no interest in organic gardening at all. They just showed up to tell people how stupid they were and how they were going to fail if they didn't use synthetic pesticides or fertilizers. Most of these people seemed so uninformed about plants in general that the main reason for their comments seemed to be arguing in and of itself. The main problem with martial arts related forums is the "my style is better than your style" posts. Unfortunately it comes with the teritory. Hopefully the way you are addressing it keeps it to a minimum.

Ron "Ziggy" Zagrocki

[Isis]

I haven't been on the internet that long, and try to stay away from many forums mainly because of the behaviour you describe. It makes you wonder whether the person is a kid behind the other screen sometimes.

Unfortunate consequence of the net? maybe but manners are still manners.

Abi Wynn-Jones