Vinyasa = kinetic chain?

[shadow]

Asana is a single posture, focusing on structure... right?

So is vinyasa like a short collection of asanas combined together? Like one of the Prasara flows can be broken down into several vinyasas?

From my experience in the past with "power" or vinyasa based yoga... the vinyasa was always refered to as that sequence of plank -> up dog -> down dog that was repeated after every other asana or short series.

How is it that vinyasa can be described as linking breath with structure? Does vinyasa happen within an asana as you begin breathing into it? Or does it happen with a movement from asana to asana?
If it is the latter, I can see that if there is a short sequence that breath can become much more conscious as it is not being overwhelmed or lost in the flow of what I consider Prasara to be.

And if so where is the definite disctinction between that and Prasara?

I take it that Prasara occurs within the longer sequence as what happens is the individual postures are forgotten about to an extent in that rather than a collection of postures, it becomes a flow of movement... it is not a flow from posture to posture because the postures are a part of the flow, not seperate from it.

I contrast this with my prior experience and also with viewing examples of other yoga... in that despite the attempts to link the asana (with that common vinyasa or even other simple linking) it looks (and felt) choppy and seems more as a collection of asana than an actual flow.

I hope my questions are clear enough.

Thanks.

[Chuck Kechter]

Damien,

In my experience, in most vinyasa (based) yoga, the sequencing of asanas are linear in nature -- generally (though not exclusively) moving forward and back. Moving along a single "path: as it were... Whereas Prasara takes in ALL six degrees of movement.

And the breath in vinyasa (as well as Prasara -- and all good yoga) happens both in the the asana as well as during the "transitions" between asana -- regardless of the type of vinyasa you are performing. Think the Breath Master Scale... Exhale during exertion, as well as during contraction...

Hopefully this helped...

[Kathryn Woodall]

Hi Damien,

This is from Scott's blog and it discusses Vinyasa and why there can be confusion.

[madyogi]

Great question, Damien. Chuck makes some good points, and Scott's blog entry referenced in kathryn's post is good too.

I had a bit of trouble translating the breath from previous yoga to my prasara practice. I think it was because I was so used to the classic vinyasas (such as sun salutation). As Chuck says, these sequences are generally working in only a couple of the degrees of freedom, namely surging, yawing, and a bit of pitching. The breath has precise function in these sequences. It serves to open the body with inhale, close the body with exhale, expand on inhale, extend lengthen and compress on exhale. The exhale also goes with any twist, as the inhale helps to unwind on the way out.

Moving into prasara, the basics are still the same (inhale expands, exhale extends), but the process is much less linear. Therefore, in my practice, the breath is a bit freer. It is more more improvised and challenged as you listen to the needs of your body in each moment. What may seem like opening the front body into a wheel during Spider Monkey could require compressive lengthening through deep exhalation to safely get there. This is a bit counter-intuitive from the standpoint of traditional vinyasa sequencing.

peace ...

[Joseph David]

I have found that with my exploration of the breath mastery scale, I often throw out the traditional breath linking because my structure either isn't at that level or it is counter intuitive to honoring the scale. I think that Prasara has given me a greater appreciation of traditional vinyasa and given me great depth within my own practice by utilizing the 6DOF concept with the breath mastery scale, a phenomenal toolbox.

My understanding that the intent of repeated vinyasa sequence between asana's R&L, is meant as a structure reset to gain information from the asana. I also believe that most vinyasa classes move too fast to find the structure and explore the 7 key components. I need to learn slow and smooth before I can add speed or intensity or I get overwhelmed and can injure myself. There are a lot of yoga injuries because people are seeing the pose as an attribute to attain rather than a journey to get there

[shadow]

So vinyasa is kind of like movement within an asana?

i.e. the breath that is happening within the asana.... like moving between the counterpoints and syncing this with the breath?

[Chuck Kechter]

Damien,

My understanding, based in my experience (of course ), is that traditionally vinyasa is the matching of the breath with and between the asana (as I wrote above)... So within the individual asana(s) you would match the "type" of breath (inhalation/exhalation) to the needs of the asana... exhaling on contraction or exertion, inhaling on expansion or "relaxation."

Where things get tricky, is "deciding" what is exertion and what is not (for example)... Each asana is going to be different, as is each practitioners "appreciation" of that asana... What is "hard" for you might be "easy" for me... So where you might exhale on a movement, I might work a control pause...

This can be illustrated by using external weight as an example: the first time you Clean to Order a 5lb. Clubbell®® chances are you are not going to "brace" much and/or hold your breath... You will (or should) breathe through that movement... But try that with the 45lb. Bruiser... I can guarantee that the depth and "quality" of your breath will change... Everyone I've ever met has held their breath and braced when lifting that monster... This was illustrated nicely at the first Softwork seminar, when Coach Sonnon had one of the participants do just that (except they started w/ a 15lb-er)...

Hopefully this made sense...

Breath (type and depth) specifically within the asana, AND in-between differing asana -- within a flow...

[Joseph David]

Originally Posted by shadow

So vinyasa is kind of like movement within an asana?

i.e. the breath that is happening within the asana.... like moving between the counterpoints and syncing this with the breath?

It sounds like your looking for something different than vinyasa. To me you’re touching upon the concept of Spanda, pulsation. Everything has a vibration, a frequency and modulation. The pulsation within a structure moving awareness between the counterpoints is a great example of Spanda. The breath as it expands or contracts is another form of Spanda. Spanda is the action of life force.

[shadow]

Cool Joseph.


I'm not really looking for anything except a definition for the word that I understand.

I get the asana, I get the prasara.... but not really sure about vinyasa, likely I'm already practicing it

Although the responses have given me some good things to think about.

[Joseph David]

Damien,

The fundemental is as follows:

Asana=Structure=RPD
Vinyasa=Breath=RPE
Prasara=Movement=RPT